Carl Fine interview #3
Thursday, July 31, 2014 - 5:30 p.m.
Carl Fine is Andy Fine's half-brother. Detectives Armstrong and Murphy re-interviewed him at the Yoknapatawpha County Sheriff's Department. The interview was recorded with the witness's knowledge and consent.
- Detective T. Armstrong
- Detective S. Murphy
- Carl Fine
Detective Murphy: Thanks for sharing more of your time.
Carl Fine: No problem. Just as long as you don't start insulting Andy's widow again.
Detective Murphy: As you know, we need your name and address for the record.
Carl Fine: I'm Carl Fine, and my address is 108 Warren Street.
Detective Murphy: We've been going through the accumulated evidence, and we have a few more questions for you.
Carl Fine: Just stick to concrete evidence and stay away from dirt and slander, and we'll be just fine.
Detective Murphy: As you know, we executed a search warrant at the farmhouse at 175 Reagle Farm Road. During that search, we came across some 12-gauge shotgun shells. Do you know why those were there?
Carl Fine: Sure. We used to do a little shooting out there occasionally. Sometimes just target practice at bottles. Sometimes shooting snakes in the brush. Every once in a while, I'll go deer hunting or something. Maybe some dove.
Detective Armstrong: Just a little fun with firearms, huh?
Carl Fine: It's a farm, detectives. I work in the woods. Basically everyone has guns. You know that. Don't try to make more of it.
Detective Murphy: There were only shells in the farmhouse. Where's the gun?
Carl Fine: It's at my house. It's my shotgun. I've had it for years. It's always at my place. I only take it out to the farmhouse for specific reasons.
Detective Murphy: Would you mind if we examined it?
Carl Fine: No, not at all. It's just your usual country boy's shotgun. Ain't like it's an assault rifle or nothing. Y'all be careful if you shoot it though. Damn thing kicks like a mule.
Detective Armstrong: I'm sure we can handle ourselves.
Detective Murphy: We'll get an officer to swing by your place and pick it up. We also found some ammunition for a .45. Know anything about that?
Carl Fine: Sure. Andy had a .45 he kept around. I'm sure that's what the ammo was for.
Detective Murphy: Our lab guys turned up your prints on the ammunition.
Carl Fine: So?
Detective Murphy: Why were you handling the ammunition?
Carl Fine: Y'all are from Oxford, Mississippi, right? I mean, I ain't been kidnapped and taken to California or nothing. My god, everyone around here has guns. And we all handle them. So my prints were on the ammo. So what?
Detective Murphy: Do you remember the last time you handled Andy's handgun or its ammunition?
Carl Fine: If I recall, I think it's been a while. I was out there a couple of months ago, maybe in the late spring, early summer. I was clearing some brush and kept the gun with me in case of snakes or whatever. That would have been the last time I handled any ammunition. But hell, if you found my prints on the clip, that could be from anytime. I don't believe Andy ever cleaned that piece.
Detective Murphy: OK. I have to ask you some difficult questions, Carl. I know you took offense at some of our inquiries during our last conversation, so please keep in mind that we're only doing our jobs.
Carl Fine: I ain't promising nothing..
Detective Murphy: We've talked to Cindy some more, and we're starting to get an idea of Andy and how he was abusive to her.
Carl Fine: Abusive! How can you say that?
Detective Armstrong: Come on, Carl. Face the facts.
Detective Murphy: Carl, I know you loved your brother, but you also admitted yourself that he could have a temper. I'm sure you noticed some things weren't right between Andy and Cindy.
Carl Fine: Well, I reckon I just figured it was the usual ups and downs, nothing out of the ordinary.
Detective Armstrong: You think slapping Cindy around is the usual ups and downs? Is that what you call it?
Detective Murphy: Easy, Armstrong. Carl, surely you must have noticed something was wrong.
Carl Fine: Well, hell. What do you want me to say? He was my brother, for Pete's sake.
Detective Murphy: Were you aware of Andy ever getting rough with Cindy?
Carl Fine: Yeah, I suppose I seen him lose his temper a time or two. He never hit her in front of me though.
Detective Murphy: So what did he do?
Carl Fine: He'd just push her. Maybe shake her a little. 'Course he yelled at her, but everyone in the county knows that.
Detective Murphy: But you never saw him actually strike Cindy?
Carl Fine: Nah.
Detective Murphy: Do you believe that's because he didn't ever hit her? Or was it just because he was around you and held back?
Carl Fine: I don't know. Look, I know Andy could be a real jerk. Maybe I didn't want to admit to myself just how much of a jerk he was. But like I said, I never seen him hit Cindy.
Detective Armstrong: Did you and Cindy ever talk about the abuse?
Carl Fine: Not really. She didn't want to get into it. Any time I'd talk shit about Andy, she didn't want to hear it. If something awful was happening between them, I wouldn't hear about it from her.
Detective Murphy: Did you ever talk to Andy about it?
Carl Fine: Andy wasn't the type to talk about feelings and stuff like that, if you know what I mean. I would tell him to watch his temper from time to time.
Detective Murphy: What did you say?
Carl Fine: I remember a couple of times where I tried to tell him to treat Cindy better. Not just to quit yelling at her, but just be nicer to her, more attentive. You know, women like that kind of thing.
Detective Murphy: How did he respond to your advice?
Carl Fine: Andy wasn't keen on taking too much advice. He never cared much what other people thought. But I think he did get it in his own way. I think I could say things, and he'd listen to me… sort of. He just wouldn't follow through with it. He might straighten up for a day or two, but then he'd go back to his old ways.
Detective Murphy: Are you aware of any other kind of abuse?
Carl Fine: What do you mean?
Detective Armstrong: Anything other than physical. Anything other than pushing her around.
Carl Fine: Nah, I told you that everyone knows he yelled at her. I guess you could call that emotional abuse or whatever.
Detective Armstrong: Anything else?
Carl Fine: Just what are you getting at?
Detective Murphy: Is it possible that Andy might have abused Cindy in some sexual way?
Carl Fine: How could he do that? They're married.
Detective Murphy: Being husband and wife doesn't make rape impossible.
Carl Fine: Hell, no! He wouldn't do that.
Detective Murphy: Carl, listen. Like I said before, I know you loved your brother. And that's very admirable. But you've also said that he had a temper, that he could be abusive. I mean, you can see why someone might think—
Carl Fine: If anything like that happened, I sure wouldn't know. I told you she wouldn't say a bad word about him. And he'd damn sure know better than to admit something like that to me. So I can't help you there.
Detective Armstrong: With Andy giving her such a rough time, is there anyone Cindy would've reached out to for help or comfort?
Carl Fine: She and her sister are pretty tight. She could've said something to her, I guess.
Detective Armstrong: What about any friends? Maybe a male friend?
Carl Fine: Now you just hold it right there. I don't think I like what you're getting at.
Detective Armstrong: Maybe you, for example. Did she turn to you for comfort?
Carl Fine: What the hell is your problem, man? Cindy is a good Christian woman, and you got no right to talk like that about her.
Detective Murphy: We have to ask these questions, Carl—
Carl Fine: Well, I don't have to answer them. It sounds like to me that y'all got plenty of evidence. If you don't have anything else to ask me other than trash and filth, I'm getting out of here.
Detective Armstrong: Sit down, Fine. We're not through with you—
Carl Fine: Well, I'm through answering your questions.
Detective Murphy: Carl, I know some of this is hard to hear, but we need to know your side—
Carl Fine: My side? My side is that maybe Andy wasn't the nicest guy ever, but he didn't deserve to be killed like that. My side is that Cindy is a wonderful woman who doesn't have a mean bone in her body, no matter what anyone said or did to her. My side is that someone murdered my brother, and all you want to do is talk trash about him and his wife. My side is that maybe you don't have the first idea what you're doing.
Detective Murphy: I understand this can be frustrating, but we need information from you so we can find out who killed your brother.
Carl Fine: But I don't know anything else. I didn't kill him, and neither did Cindy. That's all I know.
Detective Armstrong: How do you know Cindy didn't kill him?
Carl Fine: Because I've known Cindy for years, and she doesn't have it in her. If you think she does, then… I don't even know what to tell you. I'm just done here.
Detective Murphy: OK, you can go, Carl — for now. We'll be in touch.
End interview - 6:01 p.m.