Norm Resol 2nd interview
Friday, May 8, 2015 - 8:08 a.m.
Norm Resol is the night shift custodian at the Yoknapatawpha County Conference Center and was on duty the night of May 1, 2015.
Detectives Armstrong and Murphy re-interviewed him at the Yoknapatawpha County Sheriff's Department. The interview was recorded with the witness's knowledge and consent.
- Detective T. Armstrong
- Detective S. Murphy
- Norm Resol
View the photo arrays|
shown to the witness
during this interview:
Photo Array # 1
Photo Array # 2
Photo Array # 3
Photo Array # 4
Photo Array # 5
Photo Array # 6
Detective Murphy: For the record, could you please state your name and address?
Norm Resol: My name is Norm Resol. I live at 156 Highway 7 South. Mr. Gamboli is my landlord.
Detective Murphy: First, Norm, I'd like to thank you for the obscene phone calls. They really broke up my week.
Norm Resol: I didn't make no calls.
Detective Murphy: The good news is that you were smart enough to use public phones around town. The bad news is that we got your prints off them. The really bad news — or really good news, depending on which side of this table you're sitting — is that the number on the card I gave you is unique. When you call in on it, we automatically trace the calls and record the data.
Norm Resol: I lost the card you gave me. Someone else must have found it.
Detective Murphy: Did you lose your fingerprints too?
Detective Armstrong: Come on, Norm. Detective Murphy wants to arrest you now and be done with it. Me, I think you'll be more useful free.
Norm Resol: More useful how?
Detective Murphy: We'll charge you for the calls, interfering with a police officer, obstruction of justice. If not murder, at least tampering with evidence, accessory, conspiracy. I think you're going to be finding yourself answering to a new landlord — the State of Mississippi.
Norm Resol: I didn't do anything.
Detective Armstrong: That's one way this can play out. The other is that you tell us everything you saw that night.
Norm Resol: I don't want any trouble.
Detective Murphy: Norm, you got trouble. You get to decide how much.
Norm Resol: Should I talk to a lawyer first?
Detective Armstrong: You can, but what's the point if the lawyer didn't see the same things you did? I'm sure you can describe them well enough by yourself.
Detective Murphy: You're not under arrest — yet. Try talking to us.
Norm Resol: You gonna arrest me? You gonna tell my boss?
Detective Armstrong: Depends on what you tell us. Did you hurt Barbara Dubois?
Norm Resol: No. I didn't touch her.
Detective Murphy: Did you help someone hurt her? Maybe drag her body into the closet?
Norm Resol: No. I didn't hurt her. I didn't help nobody hurt nobody.
Detective Armstrong: So tell us about that night.
Norm Resol: That was a crazy night. I thought a beauty pageant, I'd get an eyeful of pretty women walking around in bathing suits. There was nothing pretty about that bunch — almost nothing.
Detective Murphy: Almost?
Norm Resol: Some of them had pretty feet.
Detective Armstrong: Go on about what happened that night.
Norm Resol: I came in at 8:00, poked my head into the banquet room. Half the people didn't look like they knew what to do with a fork, and the other half were eating off each other's plates.
Detective Armstrong: Did you see Barbara Dubois?
Norm Resol: I just snuck a peek. She turned out to be a real pretty girl. Very pretty feet. There were lots of women with pretty feet, but I couldn't see them too well because of their gowns and the tablecloths and everything.
Detective Armstrong: Who saw you there?
Norm Resol: Nobody. The wait staff was focused on getting the food out. Everybody at the dinner was busy yakking to each other. Barbara was staring at this guy—
Detective Murphy: Which guy?
Norm Resol: The tall one.
Detective Armstrong: There were several tall people, Norm.
Norm Resol: Look, I don't see so good since I broke my glasses.
Detective Armstrong: When did you break your glasses?
Norm Resol: They gave me a pair last time I was in. I broke 'em a week after I got out.
Detective Murphy: You saw well enough to dial the number on my card.
Norm Resol: I do OK close up. I can sign for things. I can see small stuff.
Detective Armstrong: Like shoes
Norm Resol: Yeah.
Detective Murphy: Let's look at some pictures. That might help. Do you see the individual who was staring at Barbara Dubois?
Norm Resol: Uh. Yeah. This one.
Detective Armstrong: For the record, the witness has identified photograph #6 of photo array # 5.
Norm Resol: Yeah, him. He was staring back. They, like, couldn't stop it. This woman kept tugging on her—
Detective Armstrong: What woman?
Norm Resol: Uh. You know. The kinda brown haired one.
Detective Armstrong: Do you see her here?
Norm Resol: Yeah, I think. Her. Yeah. Her.
Detective Armstrong: The witness has indicated photograph #1 of photo array # 2.
Norm Resol: Yeah. Didn't do much good. And the head lady kept—
Detective Murphy: Sorry. Who is the head lady? Could you point her out?
Norm Resol: Yeah, I guess. You know, this is gonna take forever if you keep interrupting me and making me do this. I gotta be at work later.
Detective Murphy: Well then, you better get busy so you won't be late.
Norm Resol: It's gonna be your fault if my boss fires me for being late.
Detective Murphy: You're breaking my heart. Just look at the pictures. Do you see the head lady?
Norm Resol: Yeah, that's her.
Detective Armstrong: The witness has indicated photograph #1 of photo array # 1.
Norm Resol: You gonna do that every time?
Detective Armstrong: Yep.
Detective Murphy: Norm, focus. The guy who was staring at Barbara Dubois. The head lady was doing something in relation to him?
Norm Resol: Yeah, she kept pestering that guy to pay attention to her. That Buchanan jerk just sits back and watches, then he gives one girl the eye. She plays it real cool, then just kinda nods, you know?
Detective Murphy: You know Mr. Buchanan?
Norm Resol: Yeah. I had to repair his room after he trashed it. What an ass.
Detective Armstrong: What woman was Mr. Buchanan giving the eye to?
Norm Resol: She had nice feet.
Detective Armstrong: Point her out, Norm.
Norm Resol: Uh. That one, I think.
Detective Murphy: You think?
Norm Resol: I'm not that good with faces. I could be more sure if you had pictures of—
Detective Murphy: We know. We don't. Just look at the faces.
Norm Resol: I think that one, because it wasn't that one or her or Barbara.
Detective Armstrong: For the record, the witness selected photograph #5 of photo array # 3.
Detective Armstrong: What else?
Norm Resol: This other chick—
Detective Murphy: Which one? Show me.
Norm Resol: That one.
Detective Armstrong: The witness has identified photograph #2 of photo array # 3.
Norm Resol: I guess. She just picks at her food, and the woman next to her was all over her.
Detective Murphy: Show us the woman.
Norm Resol: Uh. This one.
Detective Armstrong: The witness has identified picture #2 of photo array # 1.
Detective Murphy: Go on, Norm.
Norm Resol: She's not paying attention to anything. You can tell she's just fuming and trying to ignore this woman. Then the wait staff came in.
Detective Murphy: What did you do then?
Norm Resol: I left and did some work. Then I came back later when they were leaving the room, hoping to get a better view. They were all going to get their pictures taken, so I just stayed out of the way. It was like I was invisible, you know? Nobody ever notices the janitor.
Detective Armstrong: I know how that is. Doesn't that really tick you off?
Norm Resol: Yeah. No. I mean it did, but you know. I wasn't really mad or anything. It happens a lot here.
Detective Murphy: And what else did you see while you were staring at their feet?
Norm Resol: I hung around the banquet room for a couple minutes. The wait staff was on break, waiting for the dinner to be really over and everybody to clear out for good. I had to be real cool, you know, because just when I was about to go in, that head lady came back in with the brown-haired woman.
Detective Murphy: Point out the women you saw.
Norm Resol: Her … and her.
Norm Resol: Oh man, you know. I could have sat where they were sitting and everything. And they had all this food left over, and those chocolate things from that guy who makes candy.
Detective Murphy: But you didn't?
Norm Resol: No, like I said, those two women came back in.
Detective Armstrong: What did they do?
Norm Resol: Gabbing, standing real close. The head lady, she's all excited, I didn't hear a word, but you could tell. The other lady, she's nodding and frowning and nodding some more. Finally, somebody yells for them, and they shake hands and they leave.
Detective Murphy: Then you went to the table.
Norm Resol: I tried, but the place was Grand Central Station. The woman next to the picky eater came back in.
Detective Murphy: Show us.
Norm Resol: Uh… here.
Detective Armstrong: The witness has identified photograph #2 of photo array # 1.
Norm Resol: Anyway, I had to drop back.
Detective Armstrong: Pity. What did she want?
Norm Resol: She goes over to the table where those girls were sitting before.
Detective Armstrong: What girls?
Norm Resol: Barbara, the picky eater, the one with the pretty feet, some others. I don't know exactly.
Detective Murphy: Was anyone sitting at the table when she went over to it?
Norm Resol: No.
Detective Murphy: What did she do next?
Norm Resol: She puts her purse on the table and digs around in it. Then she looks around—
Detective Armstrong: She didn't see you?
Norm Resol: Nah, I'm invisible. So she messes around with something on the table, then does something else in her purse, and then she goes back out of the banquet room.
Detective Armstrong: What was she messing around with on the table?
Norm Resol: Dunno. Couldn't see through her.
Detective Armstrong: Her back was to you?
Norm Resol: Yeah.
Detective Murphy: So if you couldn't see exactly what she was messing with, did you see what was on the table in general?
Norm Resol: What do you mean? There was dishes, glasses, forks, you know… the usual stuff.
Detective Murphy: Anything else? No papers? No personal items? Nothing but the dishes from dinner?
Norm Resol: Well, there was some program things from the dinner, some of those chocolate boxes they got, could've been a little purse or two, maybe one or two of those shawl things chicks wear. Is that what you mean?
Detective Murphy: Did any of those things belong to Barbara Dubois? Do you know?
Norm Resol: Probably. Most of those chicks left their stuff at the table while they went to get their pictures taken.
Detective Armstrong: Let's back up a step. You say there could have been a little purse or two on the table? You seemed pretty sure about the rest of the things, but you don't know whether or not there were any purses on the table?
Norm Resol: No.
Detective Armstrong: Did you touch any of those purses? Did you take anything? Maybe a souvenir or a couple of bucks?
Norm Resol: No way, man. You got no proof I did anything like that.
Detective Armstrong: It's just a question, Norm.
Norm Resol: Nothing's just a question, not when you got a record like me.
Detective Armstrong: So did you? Take anything?
Norm Resol: No!
Detective Murphy: OK, Norm. Let's just say we believe you, and leave it at that for now. You're saying you saw the woman you identified from a photograph a minute ago messing around with something on the table where Barbara Dubois was sitting?
Norm Resol: I think it was her. I'm not sure I remember exactly. I don't want no trouble.
Detective Murphy: Norm, Norm, Norm. Let's not give us bad memory as an excuse. Show us.
Norm Resol: That's her.
Detective Murphy: For the record, Norm Resol identified photograph #2, photo array # 1.
Norm Resol: We even now?
Detective Armstrong: What else did you see that night?
Norm Resol: I lose this job, I'm not going to have an easy time finding another one.
Detective Murphy: You go to prison again, you're going to have a harder time.
Norm Resol: The head lady slipped me a few bucks.
Detective Armstrong: Go on.
Norm Resol: It was later. She wanted a passkey to get her into the room where they were running the pageant. Pageant HQ, she called it.
Detective Armstrong: Why not just let her in?
Norm Resol: I don't know. She asked for the key. I got bills, you know.
Detective Armstrong: I'm sure part of your job is helping guests, making them feel comfortable, helping them out.
Norm Resol: Yeah. That's right.
Detective Armstrong: Did she say why she needed the key?
Norm Resol: No.
Detective Armstrong: About what time was this?
Norm Resol: 11:00? Right around then. One of the guests — I don't remember the name — she said she lost her key or was looking for somebody, something. I told her she can't come in without her keycard. Then she says that… well, she needs a bottle of vodka and can't go back for it, and she asked me to go to the liquor store and pick up some. Maybe get something for myself too.
Detective Armstrong: Uh huh. You're an asset to the conference center.
Norm Resol: I do my job.
Detective Armstrong: You let her in.
Norm Resol: Yeah. Then the head lady saw me and got the keycard. And then I went to the store for the guest.
Detective Murphy: You recognize the guest?
Norm Resol: Maybe I seen her on the news once. I dunno. Look, I was tired. I really don't remember this one, OK?
Detective Armstrong: Look at the photos, Norm.
Norm Resol: This one, I think.
Detective Armstrong: You think?
Norm Resol: I couldn't see her feet.
Detective Armstrong: The witness has identified photograph #3 of photo array # 4.
Detective Murphy: What time did you come back from the liquor store?
Norm Resol: Around midnight.
Detective Murphy: And the guest who was on the news was waiting?
Norm Resol: No. She was gone.
Detective Armstrong: Go figure. So then what?
Norm Resol: So I had these two bottles of booze, and well, you know. I was sitting out back — there's an old couch from the lobby I keep in a corner of the loading dock. We don't have a real break room. Well, we do, but we can't drink there and the guest poured me a shot as sort of a tip.
Detective Murphy: Without being there.
Norm Resol: If they gave me money for a bottle, I'm sure they'd want to tip me too.
Detective Armstrong: And if we interview the guests, one of them will corroborate your story?
Norm Resol: Maybe. Maybe I don't remember so well. I'm not even sure she was a guest, now that I think of it. But she did give me a nice tip.
Detective Armstrong: Well earned, I'm sure. So what happened while you were out there on the loading dock?
Norm Resol: I heard the door open, started to sit up and saw someone run back inside from the direction of the dumpster.
Detective Armstrong: One of the guests?
Norm Resol: I think so, I don't know. It's dark out there. It happened too fast.
Detective Armstrong: Let's take a look at our pictures again.
Norm Resol: We could try, but I don't think it'll do much good. I was little drowsy after working so hard.
Detective Murphy: Half passed out and sleeping. I got it.
Norm Resol: If I get caught sleeping on the job, I get fired.
Detective Armstrong: Don't worry about it. What happened next?
Norm Resol: So I'm curious, so I go over to the dumpster, look inside, and I find a pair of shoes. Really nice shoes. Very pretty. I figured one of the contestants stole part of someone's costume. I thought there might be a reward, so I climbed in and fished them out. Put them in the linen closet for safe keeping.
Detective Armstrong: Good thinking.
Norm Resol: Then I went back outside for my supper break. Since I was putting in overtime, I took a little extra, slept for maybe two hours.
Detective Armstrong: Don't want the guests seeing you all bleary-eyed in the morning.
Norm Resol: Exactly.
Detective Armstrong: You're doing great, Norm. So then what happened?
Norm Resol: What makes you think something else happened?
Detective Murphy: Forensic evidence. We got it. You don't tell us the rest, we use it.
Norm Resol: OK, so there is more.
Detective Armstrong: Go on. What else?
Norm Resol: You cops twist things to fit your own theories of what occurred. Maybe not all of you, but enough.
Detective Armstrong: We're just listening.
Norm Resol: I come clean, I want you to forget about those calls.
Detective Murphy: What calls?
Norm Resol: Part of my job is taking the trash out. I went into the supply closet on two to get some empty bags. I see puke, and that sucks 'cause I hate cleaning up puke. So I open the closet door…
Detective Armstrong: Yes?
Norm Resol: You know. The dead girl was there. Barbara.
Detective Armstrong: What time was this?
Norm Resol: Must have been 2:30 or so.
Detective Armstrong: Was she still alive?
Norm Resol: Geez, I don't know. Soon as I saw her, I shut the door real quick. I knew what people would think.
Detective Armstrong: Did you see anyone in the hall before you discovered the body?
Norm Resol: Not a soul. I thought with this pageant, maybe I'd get a call to fix something, knock on the door and some nudie would answer. Instead I find a dead body. With my record, I know what that means.
Detective Armstrong: It must have been quite a disappointment.
Detective Murphy: You expect us to believe that you didn't say a word about a dead woman in your supply closet when you had nothing to do with her being there?
Norm Resol: God's honest truth. I know what people would think.
Detective Armstrong: You sure Barbara Dubois didn't see you with the shoes, come after you, and you had to defend yourself? You know how beauty queens can be. It could have happened that way. It wouldn't be like the thing with Sheila.
Norm Resol: See? There you go. I come clean, you twist things.
Detective Murphy: Norm, just stand up and 'fess up. We got DNA from under Barbara's fingernails. We just have to get the results.
Norm Resol: They got DNA from Sheila when she dug her nails into me because she liked it.
Detective Armstrong: Did Barbara like it? Did she change her mind at the last minute like Sheila?
Norm Resol: I didn't touch her! I didn't do anything wrong! You got DNA, you check it. I watch TV. I know about DNA. It can get you off. You check it. It's not mine.
Detective Armstrong: And if it is?
Norm Resol: It won't be. It can't be. It's not mine. I didn't do anything to her. Look at me! Do I have a scratch on me?
Detective Murphy: Maybe you heal fast.
Norm Resol: I help you, and you twist things. You gonna arrest me? Go ahead. That DNA stuff, I know it will clear me.
Detective Armstrong: No, Norm, we're not gonna arrest you — yet.
Detective Murphy: We'd like to talk a little more though. Maybe tell us what you did that morning.
Norm Resol: I don't want to talk no more. I want a lawyer. I'm not saying anything more.
End interview - 9:32 a.m.