Sunday, October 23, 2011 - 1:35 p.m.
This witness, Jeremy Gladwell, was a friend of the victim, Kimberly Pace. Detectives Armstrong and Murphy conducted this follow-up interview at the Yoknapatawpha County Sheriff's Department. The interview was recorded with the witness's knowledge and consent.
- Detective T. Armstrong
- Detective S. Murphy
- Jeremy Gladwell
Detective Murphy: For the record, could you please state your name and address?
Jeremy Gladwell: My name is Jeremy Gladwell. I live at 1589 Jackson Avenue in Oxford.
Detective Murphy: Mr. Gladwell, we just have a few follow-up questions about the death of Kimberly Pace.
Jeremy Gladwell: Ask away. I'll answer anything I can.
Detective Armstrong: OK, can you tell us why you drove to Kimberly's house that morning, when you discovered the body?
Jeremy Gladwell: Why we drove? What do you mean?
Detective Armstrong: Is there some reason that you didn't just walk over to Kimberly's and meet Becky and Cheryl there, rather than them picking you up and driving across the street to pick her up?
Jeremy Gladwell: That's just the way we did it. I mean, Becky picked up Cheryl, and then they came around to my place, honked the horn, I got in and we swung around to Kimberly's. I mean, Kimberly had trouble getting ready. She was never on time. I mean, if I would have gone over there, she just would have stayed in her jammies and yakked at me instead of getting ready.
Detective Armstrong: So you didn't specifically call Becky and ask her to pick you up first or anything like that?
Jeremy Gladwell: No. Why would I?
Detective Murphy: Did Dr. Pace have a habit of talking to you while she was dressed in her pajamas?
Jeremy Gladwell: A habit of it? What do you mean? Sometimes she was in her robe when I came over. You see something sinister in that, Detective?
Detective Murphy: So, she had no concern about being informally dressed in your presence?
Jeremy Gladwell: Why would she? You can't think she would be worried I would come on to her or something? Is that what you're getting at?
Detective Armstrong: There are witnesses who have speculated that you might have been in love with Dr. Pace.
Jeremy Gladwell: Ah, you must have been talking to Paul. That's laughable, Detective. Maybe you've been watching too many episodes of Will and Grace.
Detective Murphy: Do you know Tammy Freeman?
Jeremy Gladwell: Yes.
Detective Armstrong: How did you meet her?
Jeremy Gladwell: She responded to an ad I ran in the paper about rescues. Dog rescues. I believe I explained this before... I work with the Lab Rescue here in town. We run ads and try to place abandoned animals in loving homes.
Detective Murphy: Ms. Freeman adopted one of the animals you had in the rescue service?
Jeremy Gladwell: Yes, she did. A real beauty, Pepper, a chocolate Lab that we found abandoned about a year ago. She's done very well with Tammy, finally isn't afraid of her own shadow.
Detective Armstrong: When was this?
Jeremy Gladwell: The beginning of the year... January, I think. I could look it up, if you like. But I'd have to go down to the office to do that.
Detective Armstrong: OK, you can call us with that information? Does that work?
Jeremy Gladwell: Sure, fine.
Detective Murphy: We understand there is a vacant apartment in the building in which you live. Is that correct?
Jeremy Gladwell: Yeah, I guess so, but I hardly keep tabs on that sort of thing.
Detective Murphy: You don't know your neighbors?
Jeremy Gladwell: Well, I know them by sight if that's what you mean. Am I friends with any of them? Do we have coffee or get together on the weekends? No, we don't. I mind my business, and they mind theirs.
Detective Armstrong: Why is that?
Jeremy Gladwell: Just because we live in the same apartment building doesn't mean we're one big happy family. Besides, aside from myself, there is a fair amount of turnover in the building. I can't keep track of who lives where and for how long. And frankly, I'm just not interested.
Detective Murphy: So, if an unknown stranger was going in and out of that vacant apartment, you wouldn't have noticed?
Jeremy Gladwell: No. If I would've seen somebody, I would assume that they were new to the building or a guest of one of the tenants. But I'm not one of those busybodies who just sit around and watch the comings and goings of my neighbors. I'm hardly Jimmy Stewart in Rear Window.
Detective Armstrong: So, to your knowledge, there hasn't been anyone seeming to be hanging around who doesn't belong in your building?
Jeremy Gladwell: That's right. I mean, no one unusual.
Detective Murphy: Would you say you and Kimberly Pace were close?
Jeremy Gladwell: Definitely.
Detective Murphy: Do you think she would have confided in you? For instance, if she were struggling with a personal issue, would she have talked to you about it?
Jeremy Gladwell: I think so, yes.
Detective Murphy: Did she ever mention to you that she thought she might be pregnant?
Jeremy Gladwell: Of course not. Kimberly was much too responsible to let something like that happen.
Detective Murphy: Accidents do happen sometimes.
Jeremy Gladwell: To some people maybe, but not Kimberly. Not that kind of accident.
Detective Murphy: So if she had thought she was pregnant, you're confident she would have told you?
Jeremy Gladwell: Absolutely.
Detective Murphy: Hypothetically, if she had been concerned that she was pregnant, who do you think might have been the father?
Jeremy Gladwell: Are you kidding? Paul. It couldn't have been anyone else.
Detective Murphy: You're sure about that?
Jeremy Gladwell: Without a doubt. Why are you even asking about this? What does this have to do with catching Kimberly's killer?
Detective Armstrong: How close were you and Becky Pace?
Jeremy Gladwell: Very close.
Detective Armstrong: So, if she believed herself to be pregnant, you feel she'd tell you?
Jeremy Gladwell: Becky? Pregnant? That's ridiculous. She hasn't seen anybody in over a year, and, well, she's hardly a drinker, so I doubt it was a one-night stand. It would have to have been an immaculate conception.
Detective Armstrong: You sound pretty sure. Are you really sure you knew her that well?
Jeremy Gladwell: Yes. What a silly question that is!
Detective Murphy: Well, what if she were having a relationship on the sly? Say, with another woman's significant other?
Jeremy Gladwell: Like who?
Detective Murphy: Well, like Paul Evans, for instance.
Jeremy Gladwell: Paul? If you had have seen them together, you would know what‒how ridiculous that is. I mean, they were like brother and sister. Them being together would be like incest. Besides, she would never do that to her sister. I mean, she adored Kimberly.
Detective Murphy: You sure?
Jeremy Gladwell: Yes. I'm absolutely sure.
Detective Armstrong: Is it possible Paul could have persuaded her?
Jeremy Gladwell: I guess, theoretically. But however Paul and I may get along personally, one thing I will say for him is that he was as true to Kimberly as the day is long. He wouldn't have done that to her. I just can't believe it. You'd have to prove it – in a big way – for me to believe it.
Detective Armstrong: OK. Let's talk about Paul's motorcycle.
Jeremy Gladwell: His motorcycle? You're all over the map with these questions today. What about his motorcycle?
Detective Armstrong: In your first interview, you didn't mention it. You talked about a car but not a motorcycle. Why?
Jeremy Gladwell: Good grief. What am I, the inventory officer? He had a piece of shit car. It was always breaking down. He was sensitive about it so, naturally, I brought it up when I got the chance, to give him a hard time. Maybe he still has that car somewhere. Maybe he doesn't anymore. I don't know. He also has a motorcycle, also always breaking down. So what?
Detective Armstrong: You didn't hear the motorcycle the night that you noticed Kimberly's lights on? The night before you found her body?
Jeremy Gladwell: No, but then there's no reason I would have. I was working that night and had headphones on most of the time. Afterwards, I was bushed. I'm one of those lucky people who can sleep through anything. A freight train could drive right by my face and it wouldn't wake me.
Detective Armstrong: So, you just kind of live in your own little world?
Jeremy Gladwell: Some people might put it that way. Works for me.
Detective Armstrong: Let's go back to last year when Kimberly's dog Emerson died. Do you remember that time?
Jeremy Gladwell: How could I forget? She was talking so crazy. Just–she was out of her mind.
Detective Armstrong: Tell me more about that.
Jeremy Gladwell: Well, she was beside herself with grief. I mean, she blamed everybody: me, Paul, the dog sitter. She was just really devastated. She loved that dog.
Detective Armstrong: How did she blame you?
Jeremy Gladwell: Because I couldn't watch Emerson that weekend. I mean, I was buried with work. And then she blamed Paul for making her go that weekend, but in all honesty, she wanted to go. He simply asked, and she said yes. If she didn't want to go, then she wouldn't have. It was just the stress and grief of it all.
Detective Armstrong: The stress and grief of what? Losing the dog?
Jeremy Gladwell: Well, that, and her mother was getting worse, and her next door neighbor had just died, and Laurence was driving her over the bend. It was just a shitty time for her. Everything was coming down on her at once.
Detective Armstrong: So you didn't take any of her accusations seriously?
Jeremy Gladwell: No. Besides, everything simmered down after that, especially after she got Thoreau. She calmed down.
Detective Murphy: Do you have any theories about what happened to Emerson? I mean, do you think there was foul play involved?
Jeremy Gladwell: No. I mean, that's what happens in life. Pets die, especially with rescue animals. You don't know the history, and they can just die inexplicably. I mean, pets die, people die. That's the way it goes. Life goes on.
Detective Murphy: OK. So can you tell us what you were doing the night of the murder, say, from about 9:00 p.m. on Saturday the 24th 'til about 3:00 a.m. on Sunday the 25th?
Jeremy Gladwell: Well, like I told you before, I had a deadline to meet for a client, so I was home working, alone. I was working, eating, sleeping for most of the week and into the weekend, except for Sunday, of course.
Detective Murphy: Is there anyone you know that can verify your activities?
Jeremy Gladwell: Well, I had talked with my client a couple of times that weekend. I talked with him on Saturday about 1:00 p.m. and then 10:30 later on that night. I ordered a pizza around 9:30.
Detective Armstrong: Who did you order the pizza from?
Jeremy Gladwell: Papa John's
Detective Murphy: And what time was it delivered?
Jeremy Gladwell: Probably about 10:00 p.m.
Detective Armstrong: Anyone see or talk to you that night, other than the pizza delivery man?
Jeremy Gladwell: I didn't have any visitors, if that's what you mean. I ordered some emails from the time of getting the pizza and going to bed. Am I a suspect? That's absurd! I loved my best friend! I wouldn't have done anything to hurt her.
Detective Murphy: We have to check everything.
Jeremy Gladwell: I see. Anything else you need to check?
Detective Armstrong: Just one more thing. Out of curiosity, is there a reason all three of you decided to go into Kimberly's house that morning?
Jeremy Gladwell: I don't follow.
Detective Murphy: Well, why not just one of you pop out of the car and go in and get her?
Jeremy Gladwell: Well, if you had known Kimberly, you would know what a ridiculous question that is. I mean, when she wasn't ready, she wasn't ready, which means we were going to have to wait. And sitting in a car for half an hour waiting for somebody to get ready isn't nearly as much fun as sitting in their house, sipping their coffee and teasing them, you know?
Detective Armstrong: We know. And both you and Becky went into the kitchen area to look for Kimberly?
Jeremy Gladwell: I went out to the porch, and Becky went to the bath, but I–it's not like I videotaped it or anything. I mean, then we ended up all in the kitchen. The whole thing was just really surreal. I mean, the dog, Kimberly, Becky. Honestly, I'm still in shock. I know that doesn't answer the question, but that's the best I can do.
Detective Murphy: The porch, the bathroom, and the kitchen, none of those things are very far apart, but you still didn't notice where Becky went?
Jeremy Gladwell: What does this have to do catching Kimberly's killer? I had gone out to the porch to find Kimberly and Thoreau. I wasn't watching what Becky was doing.
Detective Armstrong: Becky said she heard Thoreau crying when she was in the kitchen and that's how she found Kimberly's body. Now, the porch isn't that far from the kitchen. Could you hear Thoreau crying?
Jeremy Gladwell: What does this have to do catching Kimberly's killer? No wonder you haven't caught him, if this is the kind of thing you're investigating.
Detective Armstrong: Could you hear the dog crying or not?
Jeremy Gladwell: I don't know! I must not have because I would have followed the sound into the kitchen. That's all can remember, OK?
Detective Armstrong: OK. We got it.
Detective Murphy: Thanks for coming in, Mr. Gladwell. We'll contact you if we have any more questions.
Jeremy Gladwell: OK. Fine.
End interview 1:58 p.m.