Tuesday, October 24, 11:53 a.m.

The witness was identified as a friend of the victim.  He was interviewed at his home by telephone. The interview was recorded on a portable audio tape recorder with the witness's knowledge and consent.

SM= Det. Sam Murphy
TA= Det. Ted Armstrong
CZ = Chris Zimmer

SM: Good morning, Mr. Zimmer.

CZ: Whatever.

TA: Good start, Mr. Zimmer, let's lose some of the attitude and answer some questions shall we?

CZ: Yeah, whatever.

SM: Have it your way, Mr. Zimmer, would you state your name and address please?

CZ: My name is Chriz Zimmer, and I live at I live at 12771 Fairview Court, Petaluma, California.

TA: Mr. Zimmer, we're concerned that some of the information you gave us last time we talked was misleading. We also need to follow up on a few more areas of the investigation. Let me just take you back for a moment to something that concerns us. You told us you moved James Washington's belongings out of the Ole Miss Motel on the 25th of April in 2002. Is that correct?

CZ: Yes, it is.

SM: Did you also pay his bill?

CZ: Umm ... yes.

TA: You're ahead of us here, aren't you, Mr. Zimmer?

CZ: I think I can see where you're going with this, yeah.

SM: So how did you pay his bill, Mr. Zimmer? Cash? Check? Credit card?

CZ: I paid it by credit card.

TA: And was this credit card your own?

CZ: No.

SM: It was James Washington's, wasn't it?

CZ: Yeah it was. I didn't steal it or anything. I ... I ... well, he gave it to me to pay his bill.

TA: And the motel just accepted that?

CZ: Yeah, of course. People do it all the time, pay for stuff using someone else's card.

TA: Yes, and we have a special name for those sort of "people" don't we? Criminals.

CZ: I'm not a criminal.

SM: That's not for you to decide, Mr. Zimmer. So when did Mr. Washington give you his credit card to pay the bill at the motel?

CZ: On Saturday, that must've been April 25.

TA: Why would he do that?

CZ: He was worried about how much stuff he would have to do that day, I think. He asked me to do it and I did it. He said he asked for the motel room to be under a false name, they took an imprint of his card but he couldn't give them a definite departure date. They made an arrangement to charge him when he left. I went in, collected his stuff, put it in my car and went to reception and settled up.

SM: And no one said anything?

CZ: No, couldn't have gone smoother.

SM: This is odd, isn't it, Mr. Zimmer? Mr. Washington is worried enough to move into a motel, worried enough to use a false name, but then pays with his own credit card? He must have known that was going to leave a trail, right?

CZ: I don't know. Maybe he wasn't thinking straight. Maybe he had it all worked out --- like it was part of some plan or something.

TA: Okay, let's go over this again. James Washington asked you to settle his motel bill, using his credit card. You were then supposed to meet him later that evening to return his belongings and his credit card, am I right?

CZ: Yeah, that's it. I was supposed to meet him at 7:30 p.m. by the stage where the band the Usual Suspects were playing. That was my idea actually. He said we needed to meet somewhere safe, and I said with the crowds at the festival it should be safe enough.

SM: It's nice to see you being a little more cooperative now that you're worried we've got something on you.

CZ: You've got nothing on me. I was his friend, I did what he asked me to do. That's all.

TA: You were his friend? You didn't feel like that before, in fact you tried to distance yourself from Mr. Washington if I remember correctly. Can you tell us more about this plan.

CZ: What? What plan?

SM: The plan you and Mr. Washington were supposed to have that included you having his credit card and meeting him at the festival.

TA: Or the plan to kill him and bury his body ... take your pick

CZ: Yeah, very funny. What do you want to know?

TA: What was the plan? When did you agree on it, and how much of it was put into action?

CZ: Well ... okay, look, Jamie didn't tell me too much about what was going on. I mean I knew he was scared and needed to get out for a while, but it wasn't like he said, oh, Mr. X is after me. He said he needed help, and I asked him what he wanted me to do. We got together and talked. This was just before I helped him move out of the Phoenix apartments. I saw him a couple times that week and the last time was on Friday, right? The 24th of April. He said he needed to leave town for a while, there were a few people who weren't happy with him.

SM: A few people --- were those his exact words, Mr. Zimmer?

CZ: Well, maybe not exact, I'm paraphrasing I guess, but yeah, that was pretty much it. I did ask why and all that ... but he just said he couldn't tell me, the less people who knew the better. So I asked him what he wanted me to do. And he says he hoped if he just lay low that it would blow over, but it hadn't and now he had no choice but to get away. So I asked him what he was going to do --- go home, back to his mom's place? But he said he didn't want to go home. He said he was going to go somewhere else, maybe take a job for a while, see if he could send some work back to college, maybe get a pass or some sort of credit or arrange to come back next year. He didn't want anyone to know where he was going but he would start in one direction, leave a trail somehow and then try to disappear.

TA: Why do you think he was thinking like that?

CZ: He just wanted out. He'd been reading up on all this s***about fugitives and hiding and disappearing.

TA: Didn't you try and talk him out of it?

CZ: Well, sort of, but it was kind of exciting, too, right? It was like something out of the f****** X-Files or something, like we were outcasts, on the edge of society, you know? We talked a lot that week he was at the motel, then on Friday he said he was going to leave tomorrow. He had to work at the library, tie up some loose ends on campus, get some of his stuff into storage, he'd need most of the day for that, then we were going to meet on Saturday evening like I told you. We were going to take my car and head to New Orleans, stay maybe two nights or something, and then Jamie was either going to try and get a job there or go on somewhere else alone.

TA: Did either of you make any reservations to stay in New Orleans?

CZ: No, we thought we'd just stop somewhere and see if we could get a room.

SM: So what did you do on Saturday?

CZ: Well, I got up pretty late --- Jamie had obviously been by earlier and slipped a note under my door.

TA: Do you still have it?

CZ: No, no I don't. It was just a note to say here's the room card for the motel, plus his credit card. It said he wanted me to tidy up and settle his bill.

SM: But you didn't keep it, even though it sounds like it would verify your claim he willingly gave you the card.

CZ: I didn't think I'd ever need to justify it! I thought I was going to be giving him his stuff back later on that day.

SM: Okay, then what?

CZ: Well, like I said before, I did what he asked and then I bummed around a while before heading over to meet him at the Double Decker festival.

TA: Were you on time?

CZ: Yeah, I think so. Wait, I got there early. I was there just about 6:30 or so.

SM: So what did you do?

CZ: I saw this guy who I knew, Tom something, I forget his second name, I got to talking to him for a while and was walking around and we went to get something to eat.

TA: But you went to meet Mr. Washington at 7:30 p.m. as arranged?

CZ: Yeah, of course, I mean I think I was a couple of minutes late, maybe, by the time I got to the stage area. I couldn't find Jamie, though.

TA: So then what did you do?

CZ: I waited. I looked for him and all that but I just tried to stay in that area, so I could see him if he turned up, right?

SM: What did you do when he didn't show? Did you go home?

CZ: Yeah I ... er, went home, yeah.

TA: What time did you get home?

CZ: I don't know. Say between 8:30 and 9 p.m.

TA: Anyone see you at home? Did you make any calls or anything?

CZ: I don't think so.

SM: Were you mad at Mr. Washington for not showing up?

CZ: Mad? I was so pissed. I mean not only was this like the single most exciting thing in the whole history of Christopher Zimmer Incorporated, but I was stoked about going to New Orleans. When he didn't show I thought I'd just been used.

TA: How do you mean used?

CZ: Like some decoy or something. I just felt like he hadn't really trusted me after all.

TA: Decoy? You mean you thought Mr. Washington used you to lay a false trail in case anyone was following you?

CZ: Well, something like that, yeah. I thought maybe he hoped they would follow me.

SM: Did you ever feel like you were being followed at any time?

CZ: No.

TA: You were scared, weren't you? You thought Mr. Washington put you in danger?

CZ: I wasn't scared. I was ... apprehensive.

SM: So did you stay at home all weekend waiting for a signal from Mr. Washington?

CZ: I was in and out.

TA: What was the weather like here in Oxford that weekend in April 2002?

CZ: What sort of crazy s***question is that?

SM: Do you not remember?

CZ: Not really. It's a long time ago.

TA: I didn't think anyone who was here back in 2002 would forget that amazing last week of April?

CZ: Oh yeah ... you mean with the ... with the ... unsettled weather?

SM: Oh, so you do remember?

CZ: Yeah. It rained so much, didn't it? Seemed like it was always raining back then.

SM: You haven't mentioned the storm, Mr. Zimmer.

CZ: Oh, the storm, yeah I remember now.

TA: Mr Zimmer, you have got to be one of the worst liars I've seen, in this investigation alone.

CZ: What?

SM: We didn't have a storm, Mr. Zimmer.

CZ: Okay, maybe storm was a little strong. It was more of a ---

SM: Just stop right there, Mr. Zimmer.

CZ: I ---

TA: You have no idea what the weather was like, do you?

CZ: Let me think a minute. It's kind of vague.

TA: You weren't here, Mr. Zimmer, do you remember now?

CZ: I don't know what you're talking about.

TA: Let me help you out here. You don't know because you spent Sunday morning in New Orleans, at Le Meridien Hotel, having yourself some fun with the special movies they put on for ---

CZ: --- F*** you ---

SM: We know it was you, Mr. Zimmer. I mean, it adds up. If you didn't see Mr. Washington on Saturday you couldn't have given him his credit card back. Although someone of his name signed in to Le Meridien Hotel in New Orleans using that card.

CZ: What makes you think that was me?

TA: Oh, I don't know, maybe the fact you put your parents down as your emergency contact numbers?

CZ: Shit.

TA: Yes, and you are in it up to your neck.

CZ: I didn't kill him.

SM: Why should we believe anything you say?

CZ: Okay I understand, yes, I admit I lied --- I went to New Orleans and I used Jamie's card to pay for it.

TA: Had a good time, didn't you?

CZ: Not really.

TA: Nice hotel, some sophisticated entertainment, you sure you didn't enjoy it?

CZ: Whatever, detective.

SM: What time did you get to the hotel in New Orleans?

CZ: 3 a.m. or so

TA: So you left at about 9 p.m.?

CZ: Yes, I came home from the festival and I was trying to work out what I should do. Then I thought I would just go to New Orleans anyway. I was looking forward to that and didn't see why I should miss out.

TA: So you thought you'd have a free vacation at Mr. Washington's expense, because you were angry?

CZ: Well ---

SM: Were you still angry when you used his card again on the 10th of May to buy items from Amazon.com?

CZ: No. I ... that was just ---

TA: Still angry on the 15th of May when you made a payment on the account?

CZ: I felt guilty! I was trying to put things right.

SM: Who did James Washington gamble with?

CZ: I don't know.

TA: Did he tell you his problems were related to money?

CZ: Well, I asked him if they were, I offered to help

TA: You didn't have other credit cards, did you?

CZ: No of course not, I told you already, I'm not a criminal.

TA: Oh I think you are, Mr. Zimmer. Now we're just haggling over the crime.

CZ: Look, I admit I used his card, but he did lend it to me.

SM: Well, we only have your word for that, don't we? Did anyone see you at the Double Decker festival before you say you left for New Orleans?

CZ: Yvonne Bremer asked me if I had seen Jamie. She was with her ex-boyfriend, that Hugh guy.

TA: She asked you that in front of him?

CZ: He was talking to someone else.

SM: Do you remember what time that was?

CZ: I don't, it was probably just after 8 or something.

TA: Did Mr. Washington ever mention the name Matt Fortunato to you?

CZ: The rich kid? I think Jamie might have mentioned something one time, yeah, about a party or something he'd been to. Some Superbowl party or something.

TA: So you don't have an alibi, you fraudulently used Mr Washington's credit card, you ran away on the last day we can find any evidence of Mr. Washington alive. You make a pretty good suspect.

CZ: I didn't kill Jamie! I didn't. You've got to believe me.

SM: Were you in love with him?

CZ: In love with Jamie?

SM: Yes.

CZ: No! He was my friend --- I'm not gay.

TA: Were you jealous of Yvonne's relationship with Jamie when they were together?

CZ: No, I just sometimes wished we could spend more time together, that's all.

SM: Okay Mr. Zimmer, we'll leave it there for the moment. Don't leave town, all right?

CZ: Okay.

Interview ends 12:29 p.m.