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Interview: Cordie Mathis |
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Cordie Mathis, wife of Will Mathis, and witness for the Defense being first duly sworn, testified as follows in the Circuit Court of Lafayette County during a special December term in 1901. Q: Tell the jury all about the fuss that took place at your house on the night of November the 16th from the arrival of the officers until you left? A: Let them ask me questions. They come before sundown — Will was killing hogs — the negro was helping him — they hollered around at the front side and I told Will — he went around to the front and while he was around there the negro said to me "I am a good mind to kill them men" I told him he wasn’t going to do anything as such that I wasn’t going to have any such as that — they come on around and I didn’t think there was any thing of the sort I never heard any more about it — after that I went on and the negro went off I didn’t know where and he come back and made a fuss out in the bushes and Will went out and he wouldn’t let himself be known and Will shot at him — thought it was somebody trying to kill him — after that Will come in the house and asked Hugh about his pistol and he told him he didn’t have it that someone else had it — when they went to go to bed that night I fixed the bed and Will carried the light for them to see how to go to the bed and he happened to see his pistol some way or other I think and they got to talking —
A: How come me to know I heard them talking and then the negro heard them quarrelling over it and he run in and shot the men. Q: Then what happened? A: I left I don’t know — Will went with me and the negro too. Q: Did you try to keep the negro from shooting? A: Yes sir — I told him that he shouldn’t do it and that he wasn’t going to do it. Q: Was there anybody else there at the time? A: Bill Jackson was there but he had gone. Q: Was he there when the shooting took place? A: No sir. Q: Do you know what he left for or whether or not he had gone? A: No sir. I don’t know what for I didn’t ask. Q: You didn’t hear him say? A: No sir. Q: Did you hear him say whether or not he was coming back? A: No sir. Q: Did any conversation take place between you and the negro and your husband out in the yard? A: Not that I know of — only the negro had such a talk as that — only what the negro said. Q: What did he say? A: He said he was going to kill the men. Q: And you told him not to do it? A: Yes sir and Will told him they was just doing just what their business was. Q: Was the darkey afraid the officers had come after him? A: Yes sir they had called his name that night. Q: They asked for him that night? A: Yes sir and he thought they were after him. Q: Did your husband tell the officers the darkeys right name? A: I don’t know.
Q: Those men were killed in your house? A: Yes sir. Q: They were shot right there and your husband was in the room when they were shot? A: Yes sir. Q: Having a quarrel with one of them? A: Yes sir. Q: About a pistol? A: Yes sir. Q: That night your husband took you to your fathers? A: Yes sir. Q: He was under arrest by the two officers? A: Yes sir I reckon so. Q: You heard him talking about making bond? A: Yes sir. Q: After the killing you and your husband and the negro Orlandus Lester went to your father's Whit Owens and then your father, Whit Owens, and your husband and the negro went back to your home? A: They went away I don’t know where they went. Q: Didn’t you hear them talk about going back before they went? A: No sir. Q: They went off together? A: They went out of the house. Q: They went off and were gone two or three hours before your father came back? A: They were gone a little while — not long. Q: Your husband didn’t come back? A: No sir. Q: You never saw him any more until he was arrested and in jail did you? A: Yes sir once — I seen him Sunday night. Q: The next night after the men were killed he slipped up to your fathers house? A: He come there. Q: You stated to the Coroners jury that you didn’t see him didn’t you? A: I don’t remember — you all had me so excited and scared. Q: You are not scared now are you? A: Not very bad I don’t reckon. Q: He got the gun and winchester rifle and left that night didn’t he? A: I don’t remember I didn’t see him get the gun. Q: Was it there before he came? A: I don’t know. Q: Was it there after he left your fathers? A: I don’t know. Q: The next time you saw him was in jail next Friday night? A: Yes sir. Q: Did he tell you where he had been? A: No sir. Q: Didn’t he tell you he had been running from the officers? A: No sir. Q: Didn’t he tell you about the posse being after him and dodging through the woods like a rabbit? A: No sir. Q: Didn’t he tell you he was trying to get away? A: No sir — he said he knew they had papers out after him and that he was just dodging until Court come on and then he intended giving up. Q: You knew your house was burnt down? A: Yes sir I heard it next morning. Q: You saved a feather bed didn’t you? A: I didn’t. Q: It was saved? A: They say it was. Q: It is down at your fathers? A: I reckon so. Q: Your father came back that night after he had been gone? A: Yes sir. Q: He brought some of your clothes and the baby clothes didn’t he? A: I don’t know. Q: Have you seen that feather bed? A: I have seen several — I don’t know that I would know mine from one of the Ma's. Q: You know the baby’s clothes were brought? A: No sir not all of them. Q: Did you carry any baby clothes away that night? A: No sir. Q: You have had some of the baby’s clothes since that night that were left there by you haven’t you? A: No sir — I brought some of the baby’s clothes. Q: You have got some of the clothes of your dead baby too haven’t you? A: There were some. Q: Were they brought away before the house was burnt? A: I reckon so. Q: You testified before the Coroners jury? A: Yes sir. Q: Didn’t you tell them that you didn’t know where your husband was when the shooting occurred? A: Yes sir — I don’t remember what all I did tell you all.
Q: What ever you told was the truth? A: I don’t remember what I told. Q: Have you been in jail part of the time yourself? A: Yes sir. Q: Have you had a conference with your husband? A: I reckon so and everybody else — we had no secrets. Q: Didn’t he fix up this tale about this fuss since he has been in jail? A: No sir --- they wouldn’t’ allow me to get in there with him and talk. Q: Do you know your husbands handwriting? A: I ought to. Q: Do you know his signature when you see it? Look at that and see if that is not his signature down there. A: No sir that don’t look like his writing to me. Q: What is the difference between that and his? A: I have seen right smart of his and this don’t look like it to me. Q: How much does it differ? Look at Will Mathis — isn’t that the way he writes it? A: Not exactly that way. Q: Have you had any letters from him since he has been in jail? A: I had one letter the other night here. Q: Haven’t you got others from him? A: No sir. Q: Didn’t you get a letter from him and turn it over to Mrs. Jackson? A: No sir I haven’t got any from him. Q: Look at that and see if that is Will Mathis writing? A: This looks more like it than the other does (matter written by defendant while on the stand) yet I couldn’t swear this is to save my life. Q: You said you ought to know his hand writing? A: Yes sir that is the way he signs his name. Q: Still you can’t tell whether this is his hand writing or not? A: It looks like it. Q: When you were before the Coroners jury didn’t you state that you left your husbands house that day before dark? A: I don’t remember. Q: Didn’t you state that you eat supper at your fathers house? A: I don’t remember. Q: Didn’t you next state that you went home after 10 o’clock after the shooting? A: Yes sir — I don’t remember what I told you the first time. Q: Didn’t you state that the men didn’t eat supper at your house? A: I don’t remember. Q: Didn’t you state that your husband went off to Dutch Bend and wasn’t at home at supper? A: I don’t remember. Q: Didn’t you further state he slipped off and wasn’t there at all? A: I don’t remember — I told you I don’t remember what all I told you. Q: Did he slip off? A: Not that I know of. Q: Isn’t it a fact that Jackson was there a few minutes before the shooting? A: He was there a while before the shooting but he had gone. Q: You didn’t see him go? A: No sir. Q: You didn’t see him leave the place? A: He went out of the house — he bid the officers good night and I thought he had gone. Q: You don’t know whether he was there any more that night or not? A: I didn’t see him if he was. Q: You simply didn’t see him — but you don’t know where he was? A: No sir. Q: How long before the shooting was it that you did see him? A: I don’t know I didn’t have any clock. Q: About what time did the shooting occur? A: After ten o’clock. Q: Jackson was there until ten o’clock wasn’t he? A: Somewhere near ten. Q: Were your husband and Jackson drinking that night? A: They all seemed like they were drinking a little. Q: Wasn’t that customary? A: Not more than for others. Q: Isn’t it a fact that Mr. John A. Montgomery didn’t drink a drop that night? A: It don’t seem like he did. Q: Did Hugh? A: He acted like he did. Q: You didn’t see them drink? A: No sir. Q: You smelt it on your husband? A: No sir. Q: Did you see him drink? A: No sir. Q: Did you see him with whiskey? A: No sir. Q: Did you see him offer the Montgomerys liquor? A: No sir. Q: Did you hear him say he offered them whiskey? A: No sir. Q: But they looked like they were under the influence of liquor? A: Yes sir they acted like it. Q: Was Mathis drunk when he went down to Mr. Owens? A: No sir — I never seen him drunk enough to show it walking. Q: How about Lester was he drinking? A: I couldn’t swear any of them were drinking. Q: Did you get a letter from Will Mathis enclosing a letter in the same envelope to Shell Vines since he had been in jail and didn’t he write in that what you all were to swear? A: No sir. Q: Did he write you a letter to get him some saws and a hammer and other tools? A: No sir I never heard of it until this court. Q: What is your baby’s name? A: Clelon. Q: What is Bill Jacksons wife's name? A: Beulah. Q: Haven’t you an Aunt Bet? A: Yes sir several and cousins too.
Q: The day you were arrested here in town and carried to jail do you know who it was arrested you? A: No sir. Q: Do you know A. Z. T. Johnson? A: I have seen him. Q: Did you say to Mr. Johnson soon after he arrested you that you supposed they had arrested you for telling two different tales about the matter? And didn’t he tell you "No they haven’t arrested you for that? A: I don’t remember. Q: Didn’t he say they had arrested you for being a party to the killing and didn’t you tell him that you had nothing to do with it and that you did everything you could to keep them from killing them and that you thought you had done it until they did it? A: I don’t remember. Q: What is the matter with your memory? A: I told you they had me excited and scared. Q: You were not in Court then? A: You just as well to have had me in Court as to have had me where you were going to put me. Q: If you said that was it the truth? A: I don’t remember if I told him that. Q: If you did was it the truth? A: No. Q: Then why would you make a statement of that sort? A: I don’t remember whether I did or not. Q: Your recollection of the event of the killing was fresher then than it is now? A: I don’t know. Q: You were sworn as a witness before the Coroners jury? A: I reckon I was. Q: You swore you would tell the truth and nothing but the truth didn’t you? A: I don’t know. I told you I don’t remember what I told. Q: Didn’t you say then that you went to your fathers house about sundown and that Orlandus Lester was the only one that went with you? A: I don’t remember. Q: Didn’t you say that before you left that Hugh and John A. Montgomery had left your husbands house? A: I don’t remember. Q: Didn’t you say that they had left and that you didn’t know which way they went? A: I don’t remember. Q: Were you asked these questions and did you answer "Was that before your husband left or after? A:. After Q:. Did your husband slip off? A:. Yes?" A: I don’t remember. Q: Were you asked "who left first? A:. Bill Jackson"? A: I don’t remember. Q: Were you asked "How long did he leave before the Montgomerys left? A:. He left before my husband left"? A: I don’t remember. Q: You were asked this question "Bill Jackson left and then your husband left and then you and the darkey left and the Montgomerys left and there was no one at all left at the house? A:. Yes sir." A: I don’t remember. Q: "It was about dark when I got to my fathers" "I walked and it was about two miles" Did you say that? A: I don’t remember. Q: "Did you carry anything with you"? was asked and you said A:. "No, just the baby"-- Did you say that? A: I don’t remember. Q: You were asked when you got to your fathers house "What did you tell him about coming" and you answered A: "Never told him anything I left because my husband left and I wouldn’t stay by myself? " A: I don’t remember. Q: You were asked "did your father tell you anything about Orlandus Lester being there? " And you said A: "No sir. " A: I don’t remember anything I told you all. Q: "How long have you known Orlandus Lester?" Your answer "A long time" Did you say that? A: I don’t know. Q: When the question was asked "Do you know anything about the burning or killing? "Didn’t you say A: "No sir."? A: I don’t remember Q: Wasn’t the question asked you "Do you know who did any part of it?" And didn’t you say "No sir?" A: I don’t remember. Q: Do you tell this jury that you don’t remember any part of your testimony that you gave before the Coroners jury? A: I don’t remember any of it. A: Please tell us how you remember the events that occurred that night if you can’t remember things that happened since.? A: Because I remember the things that happened and I don’t remember what I said. Q: Weren’t you worse scared then than you are now? A: Yes sir. Q: Weren’t you worse scared when two men were being killed than you were when you were before the Coroners jury? A: I don’t know that I was.
Q: You state that everything told before the Coroners jury was told under great excitement? A: Yes sir. Q: And fear of your life? A: Yes sir. Q: What were your feelings? A: It looks like they ought to know without me telling them — they had me into it and all and were talking about hanging me and all the rest and I was excited and of course I couldn’t expect anything else. Q: You were not responsible for what you said then? A: No sir.
Q: At that time nobody had ever talked about hanging anybody had they? A: Yes sir everybody talked about it. Q: About hanging you? A: Yes sir. Q: When you first made your statement? A: Yes sir I head it before I came to Oxford. Q: Tell us one or two that talked about hanging you. A: They talked of it when they put me in jail. Q: Weren’t you kept out of jail in the witness room until after you made your second statement? A: No sir they put me in jail right then as soon as they brought me here. Q: Didn’t you sit down stairs in the Chancery Clerks office until after you had been brought before the Coroners jury twice? A: They didn’t bring me but once did they? Q: I am not on the stand. A: It don’t seem to me like they did — they brought me on the stand and carried me back in the room and then carried me to jail. Q: Didn’t you come before the Coroners Jury and deny all knowledge of the killing and deny everything about it until your father came on the stand and didn’t he tell you to tell the truth after he come on the stand? A: I don’t remember. Q: Didn’t you come to town with your father? A: Yes sir. Q: There were no officers with you then? A: No sir. Q: You were kept here only as a witness and had been before the Coroners jury twice before you were arrested? A: I don’t think I was before them but once. |
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