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Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 5:30 p.m.
Carl Fine, who was identified as the half-brother of the victim, was interviewed at the Yoknapatawpha County Sheriff's Department by Detectives Armstrong and Murphy. The interview was recorded on a portable tape recorder with the witness's knowledge and consent.
- TA = Detective T. Armstrong
- SM = Detective S. Murphy
- CF = Carl Fine
SM: Thanks for sharing more of your time.
CF: No problem. Just as long as you don't start insulting Andy's widow again.
SM: As you know, we need your name and address for the record.
CF: I'm Carl Fine and my address is 108 Warren Street.
SM: We've continued going through the accumulated evidence and we just have some questions for you.
CF: Just stick to concrete evidence and stay away from dirt and slander and we'll be just fine.
SM: As you know, we obtained and executed a search warrant for the farmhouse at 175 Reagle Farm Road. During that search, we came across some 12-gauge shotgun shells. Do you know why these were here?
CF: Sure. We used to occasionally do a little shooting out there. Sometimes just target practice at bottles. Sometimes shooting snakes in the brush. Every once in a while I'll go deer hunting or something. Maybe some dove.
TA: Just a little fun with firearms, huh?
CF: It's a farm, Detectives. I work in the woods. Basically everyone has guns, you know that. Don't try to make more of it.
SM: There were only shells in the farmhouse. Where is the gun?
CF: It's at my house. It's my shotgun. I've had it for years. It's always at my place; I only take it out to the farmhouse for specific reasons.
SM: Would you mind if we examined it?
CF: No, not at all. It's just your usual country boy's shotgun. Ain't like it's an assault rifle or anything. Y'all be careful if you shoot it though. Damn thing kicks like a mule.
TA: I'm sure we can handle ourselves.
SM: We'll get an officer to swing by your place and pick it up. We also found some ammunition for a .45. Know anything about that?
CF: Sure. Andy had a .45 he kept around. I'm sure that's what the ammo was for.
SM: Our lab guys turned up your prints on the ammunition.
CF: So?
SM: Why were you handling the ammunition?
CF: Y'all are from Oxford, Mississippi, right? I mean, I ain't been kidnapped and taken to California or anything. My god, everyone around here has guns. And we all handle them. So my prints were on the ammo, so what?
SM: Do you remember the last time you handled Andy's handgun or it's ammunition?
CF: If I recall, I think it's been a while. I was out there a couple of months ago, maybe in the late spring, early summer. I was clearing some brush and kept the gun with me in case of snakes or whatever. That would have been the last time I handled any ammunition. But hell, if you found my prints on the clip, that could be from anytime. I don't believe Andy ever cleaned that piece.
SM: Okay. I have to ask you some difficult questions, Carl. I know you took offense at some of our inquiry during our last conversation. So please keep in mind that we're only doing our jobs.
CF: Yeah, sure. Whatever.
SM: We've talked to Cindy some more and we're starting to get an idea of Andy and how he was abusive to her.
CF: Abusive! How can you say that?
TA: Come on, Carl. Face the facts.
SM: Carl, I know you loved your brother. But you also admitted yourself that he could have a temper. I'm sure that you noticed some things weren't right between Andy and Cindy.
CF: Well, I reckon I just figured it was the usual ups and downs, nothing out of the ordinary.
TA: You call slapping Cindy around the usual ups and downs? Is that what you call it?
SM: Easy, Armstrong. Carl, surely you must have noticed something was wrong.
CF: Well, hell. What do you want me to say? He was my brother, for goodness sakes.
SM: Were you aware of Andy ever getting rough with Cindy?
CF: Yeah, I suppose I seen him lose his temper a time or two. He never hit her in front of me, though.
SM: Then what happened?
CF: He'd just push her. Maybe shake her a little. 'Course he yelled at her. Everyone in the county knows that.
SM: But you never saw him actually strike Cindy?
CF: Nah.
SM: Do you believe that is because he didn't ever hit her? Or was it just because he was around you and held back?
CF: I don't know. Look, I know Andy could be a real jerk. Maybe I didn't want to admit to myself just how much of a jerk he was. But like I said, I never seen him hit Cindy.
TA: Did you and Cindy ever talk about the abuse?
CF: Not really. She didn't want to get into it. There were times when I would criticize Andy, but she didn't want to hear it. If something awful was happening between them, I wouldn't hear about it from her.
SM: Did you ever talk to Andy about it?
CF: Andy wasn't the type to talk about feelings and stuff like that, if you know what I mean. I would tell him to watch his temper from time to time. I remember a couple of times where I tried to tell him to treat Cindy better. Not just to quit yelling at her, but just be nicer to her. More attentive. You know, women like that kind of thing.
SM: How did he react to your advice?
CF: Andy wasn't keen on taking too much advice. He didn't pay much attention to what other people thought. But, I think he did get it in his own way. I think I could say things and he'd listen to me, sort of. He just wouldn't follow through with it. He might straighten up for a day or two, but then he'd go back to his old ways.
SM: Are you aware of any other kind of abuse?
CF: What do you mean?
TA: Anything other than physical. Anything other than pushing her around.
CF: Nah, I told you that everyone knows he yelled at her. I guess you could call that emotional abuse or whatever.
TA: Anything else?
CF: Just what are you getting at?
SM: Is it possible that Andy might have abused Cindy in some sexual way?
CF: How could he do that? They're married?
SM: Being husband and wife doesn't make rape impossible.
CF: Hell, no! He wouldn't do that!
SM: Carl, listen. Like I said before, I know you loved your brother. And that's very admirable. But you've also said that he had a temper, that he could be abusive. I mean, you can see why someone might think--
CF: If anything like that happened, I sure wouldn't know. I told you she wouldn't say a bad word about him. And he would know better than to admit to me something like that. So I can't help you there.
SM: We have to ask these questions, Carl--
CF: Well, I don't have to answer them. It sounds like to me that y'all got plenty of evidence. So I'm getting out of here if you don't have anything else to ask me other than trash and filth.
TA: Sit down, Fine. We're not through with you--
SM: That's okay. You can go, Carl. Thanks for your patience.
End interview - 6:01 p.m.
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