Friday, February 6, 2004 -- 4:08 PM

The witness, Norm Resol, is a 31-year-old male and night shift custodian at the Yoknapatawpha County Conference Center. This follow up interview was conducted by YCSD Detectives Armstrong and Murphy, and was recorded on a portable tape recorder with the witness's knowledge and consent.

View the photo arrays shown to the witness during this interview: Photo Array # 1, Photo Array # 2, Photo Array # 3, Photo Array # 4, Photo Array # 5, Photo Array # 6.

SM: For the record, could you please state your name and address?

NR: My name is Norm Resol. I live at 156 Highway 7 South. Mr. Gamboli is my landlord.

SM: First, Norm, I'd like to thank you for the obscene phone calls. They really broke up my week.

NR: I didn't make no calls.

SM: The good news is that you were smart enough to use pay phones. The bad news is that we got your prints off them. The really bad news, or really good news depending on which side of this table you're sitting, is that the number on card I gave you is unique. When you call in on it, we automatically trace the calls and record the data.

NR: I lost the card you gave me. Someone else must have found it.

SM: Did you lose your fingerprints too?

TA: Come on, Norm. Detective Murphy wants to arrest you now and be done with it. Me, I think you'll be more useful free.

NR: More useful how?

SM: We'll charge you for the calls, interfering with a police officer, obstruction of justice. If not murder, at least tampering with evidence, accessory, conspiracy. I think you're going to be finding yourself answering to a new landlord -- the State of Mississippi.

NR: I didn't do anything.

TA: That's one way this can play out. The other is that you tell us everything you saw that night.

NR: I don't want any trouble.

SM: Norm, you got trouble. You get to decide how much.

NR: Should I talk to a lawyer first?

TA: You can, but what's the point if the lawyer didn't see the same things you did? I'm sure you can describe them well enough by yourself.

SM: You're not under arrest -- yet. Try talking to us.

NR: You gonna arrest me? You gonna tell Mr. Niwachee?

TA: Depends on what you tell us. Did you hurt Barbara Dubois?

NR: No. I didn't touch her.

SM: Did you help someone hurt her? Maybe drag her body into the closet?

NR: No. I didn't hurt her. I didn't help nobody hurt nobody.

TA: So tell us about that night.

NR: That was a crazy night. I thought a beauty pageant, I'd get an eyeful of pretty women walking around in bathing suits. There was nothing pretty about that bunch -- almost nothing.

SM: Almost?

NR: Some of them had pretty feet.

TA: Go on about what happened that night.

NR: I came in at eight, poked my head into the banquet room. Half the people didn't look like they knew what to do with a fork and the other half were eating off each other's plates.

TA: Did you see Barbara Dubois?

NR: I just snuck a peek. She turned out to be a real pretty girl. Very pretty feet. There were lots of women with pretty feet, but I couldn't see them too well because of their gowns and the tablecloths and everything.

TA: Who saw you there?

NR: Nobody. The wait staff was focused on getting the food out. Everybody at the dinner was busy yakking to each other. Barbara was staring at this guy--

SM: Which guy?

NR: The tall one--

TA: There were several tall people, Norm.

NR: Look, I don't see so good since I broke my glasses.

TA: When did you break your glasses?

NR: They gave me a pair last time I was in. I broke ‘em a week after I got out.

SM: You saw well enough to dial the number on my card.

NR: I do okay close up. I can sign for things. I can see small stuff.

TA: Like shoes

NR: Yeah.

SM: Let's look at some pictures -- that might help. Do you see the individual who was staring at Barbara Dubois?

NR: Uh. Yeah. This one.

TA: For the record, the witness has identified photograph number six of photo array # 5.

NR: Yeah, him. He was staring back, they like couldn't stop it. This woman kept tugging on her--

TA: What woman?

NR: Uh. You know. The kinda brown haired one.

TA: Do you see her here?

NR: Yeah, I think. Her. Yeah. Her.

TA: The witness has indicated photograph number one of photo array # 2.

NR: Yeah. Didn't do much good. And the head lady kept--

SM: Sorry. Who is the head lady? Could you point her out?

NR: Yeah, I guess. You know, this is gonna take forever if you keep interrupting me and making me do this. I gotta be at work later.

SM: Well then, you better get busy so you won't be late.

NR: It's gonna be your fault if Mr. Niwachee fires me for being late.

SM: You're breaking my heart. Just look at the pictures. Do you see the head lady?

NR: Yeah, that's her.

TA: The witness has indicated photograph number one of photo array # 1.

NR: You gonna do that every time?

TA: Yep.

SM: Norm, focus. The guy who was staring at Barbara Dubois. The head lady was doing something in relation to him?

NR: Yeah, she kept pestering that guy to pay attention to her. That Buchanan jerk just sits back and watches, then he gives one girl the eye. She plays it real cool, then just kinda nods, you know?

SM: You know Mr. Buchanan?

NR: Yeah. I had to repair his room after he trashed it. What an ass.

TA: What woman was Mr. Buchanan giving the eye to?

NR: She had nice feet.

TA: Point her out, Norm.

NR: Uh. That one, I think.

SM: You think?

NR: I'm not that good with faces. I could be more sure if you had pictures of--

SM: We know. We don't. Just look at the faces.

NR: I think that one, because it wasn't that one, or her, or Barbara.

TA: For the record, the witness selected photograph number five of photo array # 3.

TA: What else?

NR: This other chick--

SM: Which one? Show me.

NR: That one.

TA: The witness has identified photograph number two of photo array # 3.

NR: I guess. She just picks at her food and the woman next to her was all over her.

SM: Show us the woman.

NR: Uh. This one.

TA: The witness has identified picture number two of photo array # 1.

SM: Go on, Norm.

NR: She's not paying attention to anything. You can tell she's just fuming and trying to ignore this woman. Then the wait staff came in.

SM: What did you do then?

NR: I left and did some work, then I came back later when they were leaving the room, hoping to get a better view. They were all going to get their pictures taken, so I just stayed out of the way. It was like I was invisible, you know? Nobody ever notices the janitor.

TA: I know how that is. Doesn't that really tick you off?

NR: Yeah. No. I mean it did, but, you know. I wasn't really mad or anything. It happens a lot here.

SM: And what else did you see while you were staring at their feet?

NR: I hung around the banquet room for a couple minutes. The wait staff was on break, waiting for the dinner to be really over and everybody to clear out for good. I had to be real cool, you know, because just when I was about to go in, that head lady came back in with the brown-haired woman.

SM: Point out the women you saw.

NR: Her -- and her.

TA: The witness has identified photograph number one of photo array # 1 and photograph number one of photo array # 2. What were you going into the banquet room for?

NR: Oh man, you know. I could have sat where they were sitting and everything. And they had all this food left over, and those chocolate things from that guy who makes candy.

SM: But you didn't?

NR: No, like I said, those two women came back in.

TA: What did they do?

NR: Gabbing, standing real close. The head lady, she's all excited, I didn't hear a word, but you could tell. The other lady, she's nodding and frowning and nodding some more. Finally, somebody yells for them and they shake hands and they leave.

SM: Then you went to the table.

NR: I tried, but the place was Grand Central Station. The woman next to the picky eater came back in.

SM: Show us.

NR: Uh... here.

TA: The witness has identified photograph number two of photo array # 1.

NR: Anyway, I had to drop back.

TA: Pity. What did she want?

NR: She goes over to the table where those girls were sitting before.

TA: What girls?

NR: Barbara, the picky eater, the one with the pretty feet, some others. I don't know exactly.

SM: Was anyone sitting at the table when she went over to it?

NR: No.

SM: What did she do next?

NR: She puts her purse on the table and digs around in it. Then she looks around--

TA: She didn't see you?

NR: Nah. I'm invisible. So she messes around with something on the table, then does something else in her purse and then she goes back out of the banquet room.

TA: What was she messing around with on the table?

NR: Dunno. Couldn't see through her.

TA: Her back was to you?

NR: Yeah.

SM: So if you couldn't see exactly what she was messing with, did you see what was on the table in general?

NR: What do you mean? There was dishes, glasses, forks, you know... the usual stuff.

SM: Anything else? No papers? No personal items? Nothing but the dishes from dinner?

NR: Well, there was some program things from the dinner, some of those silver boxes they got, could've been a little purse or two, maybe one or two of those shawl things chicks wear. Is that what you mean?

SM: Did any of those things belong to Barbara Dubois? Do you know?

NR: Probably. Most of those chicks left their stuff at the table while they went to get their pictures taken.

TA: Let's back up a step. You say there could have been a little purse or two on the table? You seemed pretty sure about the rest of the things, but you don't know whether or not there were any purses on the table?

NR: No.

TA: Did you touch any of those purses? Did you take anything?  Maybe a souvenir or a couple of bucks?

NR: No way, man. You got no proof I did anything like that.

TA: It's just a question, Norm.

NR: Nothing's just a question, not when you got a record like me.

TA: So did you? Take anything?

NR: No!

SM: Okay, Norm. Let's just say we believe you and leave it at that for now. You're saying you saw the woman you identified from a photograph a minute ago messing around with something on the table where Barbara Dubois was sitting?

NR: I think it was her. I'm not sure I remember exactly. I don't want no trouble.

SM: Norm, Norm, Norm. Let's not give use bad memory as an excuse. Show us.

NR: That's her.

SM: For the record, Norm Resol identified photograph number two, photo array # 1.

NR: We even now?

TA: What else did you see that night?

NR: I lose this job, I'm not going to have an easy time finding another one.

SM: You go to prison again, you're going to have a harder time.

NR: The head lady slipped me a few bucks.

TA: Go on.

NR: It was later. She wanted a passkey to get her into the room where they were running the pageant. Pageant HQ, she called it.

TA: Why not just let her in?

NR: I don't know. She asked for the key. I got bills, you know.

TA: I'm sure part of your job is helping guests, making them feel comfortable, helping them out.

NR: Yeah. That's right.

TA: Did she say why she needed the key?

NR: No.

TA: About what time was this?

NR: Eleven? Right around then. One of the guests, I don't remember the name, she said she lost her key, or was looking for somebody, something. I told her she can't come in without her key card, then she says that well, she needs a bottle of vodka and can't go back for it and she asked me to go to the liquor store and pick up some... and maybe get something for myself, too.

TA: Uh huh. You're an asset to the conference center.

NR: I do my job.

TA: You let her in.

NR: Yeah. Then the head lady saw me and got the keycard. And then I went to the store for the guest.

SM: You recognize the guest?

NR: Maybe I seen her on the news once. I dunno. Look, I was tired. I really don't remember this one, okay?

TA: Look at the photos, Norm.

NR: This one, I think.

TA: You think?

NR: I couldn't see her feet.

TA: The witness has identified photograph number three of photo array # 4.

SM: What time did you come back from the liquor store?

NR: Around midnight.

SM: And the guest who was on the news was waiting?

NR: No. She was gone.

TA: Go figure. So then what?

NR: So I had these two bottles of booze, and well, you know. I was sitting out back -- there's an old couch from the lobby I keep in a corner of the loading dock. We don't have a real break room. Well, we do, but we can't drink there and the guest poured me a shot as sort of a tip.

SM: Without being there.

NR: If they gave me money for a bottle, I'm sure they'd want to tip me too.

TA: And if we interview the guests, one of them will corroborate your story?

NR: Maybe. Maybe I don't remember so well. I'm not even sure she was a guest, now that I think of it. But she did give me a nice tip.

TA: Well earned, I'm sure. So what happened while you were out there on the loading dock?

NR: I heard the door open, started to sit up and saw someone run back inside from the direction of the dumpster.

TA: One of the guests?

NR: I think so, I don't know. It's dark out there. It happened too fast.

TA: Let's take a look at our pictures again.

NR: We could try, but I don't think it'll do much good. I was little drowsy after working so hard.

SM: Half passed out and sleeping. I got it.

NR: If I get caught sleeping on the job, I get fired.

TA: Don't worry about it. What happened next?

NR: So I'm curious, so I go over to the dumpster, look inside, and I find a pair of shoes. Really nice shoes. Very pretty. I figured one of the contestants stole part of someone's costume. I thought there might be a reward, so I climbed in and fished them out. Put them in the linen closet for safe keeping.

TA: Good thinking.

NR: Then I went back outside for my supper break. Since I was putting in overtime, I took a little extra, slept for maybe two hours.

TA: Don't want the guests seeing you all bleary-eyed in the morning.

NR: Exactly.

TA: You're doing great, Norm. So then what happened?

NR: What makes you think something else happened?

SM: Forensic evidence. We got it. You don't tell us the rest, we use it.

NR: Okay, so there is more.

TA: Go on. What else?

NR: You cops twist things to fit your own theories of what occurred. Maybe not all of you, but enough.

TA: We're just listening.

NR: I come clean, I want you to forget about those calls.

SM: What calls?

NR: Part of my job is taking the trash out. I went into the supply closet on two to get some empty bags. I see puke and that sucks ‘cause I hate cleaning up puke. So I open the closet door...

TA: Yes?

NR: You know. The dead girl was there. Barbara.

TA: What time was this?

NR: Must have been 2:30 or so.

TA: Was she still alive?

NR: Geez, I don't know. Soon as I saw her I shut the door real quick. I knew what people would think.

TA: Did you see anyone in the hall before you discovered the body?

NR: Not a soul. I thought with this pageant, maybe I'd get a call to fix something, knock on the door and some nudie would answer. Instead I find a dead body. With my record, I know what that means.

TA: It must have been quite a disappointment.

SM: You expect us to believe that you didn't say a word about a dead woman in your supply closet when you had nothing to do with her being there?

NR: God's honest truth. I know what people would think.

TA: You sure Barbara Dubois didn't see you with the shoes, come after you, and you had to defend yourself? You know how beauty queens can be -- it could have happened that way. It wouldn't be like the thing with Sheila.

NR: See? There you go. I come clean, you twist things.

SM: Norm, just stand up and 'fess up. We got DNA from under Barbara's fingernails. We just gotta get the results.

NR: They got DNA from Sheila when she dug her nails into me because she liked it.

TA: Did Barbara like it? Did she change her mind at the last minute like Sheila?

NR: I didn't touch her! I didn't do anything wrong!  You got DNA, you check it. I watch TV. I know about DNA. It can get you off. You check it; it's not mine.

TA: And if it is?

NR: It won't be. It can't be. It's not mine. I didn't do anything to her. Look at me! Do I have a scratch on me?

SM: Maybe you heal fast.

NR: I help you and you twist things. You gonna arrest me? Go ahead. That DNA stuff, I know it will clear me!

TA: No, Norm, we're not gonna arrest you.  Yet.

SM: We'd like to talk a little more, though. Maybe tell us what you did that morning.

NR: I don't want to talk no more. I want a lawyer. I'm not saying anything more.

Interview ends -- 5:32 PM